This morning, we arrived at the Musicave to find numerous emails from SCO readers pointing to an article written by Drew McManus (if you are interested in “orchestra management”, but you don’t read Drew’s blog regularly, you should). Drew’s article calls attention to several controversial statements allegedly made by author Joe Horowitz concerning the plight of full-time work for orchestral musicians, and more specifically, the ongoing labor disputes in the Detroit Symphony Orchestra.
But the giant elephant in the room is something that was recently discussed in a private community meeting that A-list Hollywood oboist Tom Boyd and SCO founder Deane Ogden put together in late September.
The original topic: How to get more film scoring dates to come back to Los Angeles.
The NEW topic: Does anybody care?
In the spirit of discussion which makes SCOREcastOnline.com what it is, we go to YOU—the actual people being affected here.
Read this article (and the associated links therein) and tell us what you think if it all. Are musicians living in a fantasy world? What’s YOUR take?
COMMENTS are open below.
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I am glad I stumbled across this thoughtful and meaningful conversation. I am not sure anyone is listening any more but I would like to offer a different perspective. I am co-owner of the largest post/music houses in Arizona. We produce music for media of all sorts, but mostly advertising. We do every session that we can with “real players”. Both Orchestral and Rhythm section. The only reason we do this, (which will include musicians from LA), is because we know that is the way music is made. I can tell you for a fact that using virtual instruments is not cost effective or faster by any means, just due to the time it takes to program what a great player would give you in the first 3 takes of any piece. Therefore I think the answer is for the musicians (composers, players etc…) to be the ones pushing the directors/clients toward recording the real thing, as it were. If you lose that respect, than all music is doomed.
I can offer a few things that I do think players don’t like to hear that would help them work better in this day and age.
1-The Unions!! They have become useless and a hinderence to things getting done. I know that many musicians rely on the the health care and retirement, but this is also a throwback from the past and is changing in every profession, not just musicians.
2-Back end pay/royalty. This creates so much paperwork and production expenses for the agency/production company that it needs to be a line item in the budget itself. Myself as a producer would rather pay you 3 times the current rate up front and not pay the rest in payroll and producers to track all of the performances.
3-Lower your rate. It is something the composers have been dealing with for years!!! ;0
Thanks so much for letting me chime in…
Matt Cornwell
Composer/Producer
Big U Music.Sound Design Inc.
Matt@Bigumusic.com
the current recording environment in LA is a tough problem to solve and an even tougher one to talk about in the “open”. I’ve suggested things for the past 15years – I dont have the exact answers but I can tell you the AFM, the RMA, local 47 and the Film Musicians Secondary Mkt fund are all fairly not stemming the loss of recording work NOT being doe in LA. I’m pro reality and many folks who actually control these very recording arenas are not so taken with giving or taking on the current business models in place.
Thank you Deane Ogden for adding me to this forum!
Yes. The meeting we had on the topic “How to get more film scoring dates to come back to Los Angeles. The NEW topic: Does anybody care?”"with many young and older composers was very positive in dialogue.
The reality staring at us is one many working regularly do NOT want to address. Jon Burlingame interviewed me several months back for ‘Variety’ and left out one important topic I mentioned for young and up and coming composers and musicians 3 or 4 years or more out of music schools. We have our head in the sand if we do NOT have foresight 2 years out, for starters. What I told Mr Burlingame that did not get printed was that we must create a professional promotional team of 3 or 4 NON-musicians who are on salary by the AFM to wine and dine and most importantly educated young and up and coming directors and producers full time so many independent and even huge blockbusters don’t run away [ ie. IRON MAN 2, Redford last movie or scoring going to Eastern Europe or even in our own backyard NOT under the AFM. I do not a this time believe the back end royalties have to be taken away but we need to discuss a formula that allows a composer given, as an example a 50 grand budget, to to stay in LA without having to go dark and then played by musicians many whom are the mainstream musicans already working heavily in the studios without even getting a slap on the wrist. Or what about the movies being SKYPED to where ever and what about tax incentives in the State of California?
I am extremely aware musicians out of USC or any of the conservatories will never see the inside of studios as I have over my 27 years and 1200+ movies of recording here in LA but in order for these 20-30 year olds, we will have to loose two things. Greed and EGO!
I have absolutely no desire to lessen the work of us who at this point quality for MPHW, but with the hours going us to 400 per quarter to quality and the pension in the red zone I clearly see the writing on the wall and I know many others do too.
Work is in fact down if one goes back 4-5 years big time and to finish there is no reason at all why we in LA cannot have 3 or 4 orchestras going all the time. That would employ so many wonderful musician and composers[ keeping them in Los Angeles] who are sitting by the phone waiting for it to ring.
I am not going to keep my head in the sand and as many know will take political bullets for what I am saying here to walk away one of these days with one healthy musical scoring business in Los Angeles! There are reasons we are down to 3 major recording studios. Where is CBS Radford and Paramount M and should I go on.
Cheers to you all and as one person told me many years ago when I got my 1st movie, “Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom”, to look straight ahead and all will fall into place. I simply want to see others have some of the incredible opportunities as I have had.
Tom Boyd/oboe player and not so proud member of RMALA
Firstly, “we arrived at the Musicave”. fantastic
I tend to agree with the statement “Orchestral Musicians Should No Longer Expect to Work Full-Time” but for me the key word in there is “expect”. In today’s work climate (*not* specifically the last few years) I think the best anyone can do in any field is continue to hone whatever skills you have to keep yourself employed. The world is becoming a very small place and frankly to expect working conditions to stay the same as they have been for 30 years is a little naive.
That said, I’ve been thinking specifically about orchestral players recently and I wonder if in fact their horizons are looking brighter?
Consider what technology has done for leveling the playing field amongst composers. Consider how communities like this help teach and train emerging composers quicker than in the past. I see a move back to live players as a necessary step in having your music stand out in a crowded room.
Do I think film makers are going to realise the error of their ways and acknowledge the difference live players bring to a tune? No. And that simply means we are going to have to be more creative in finding ways to pay for the sessions. I still feel orchestral players will continue to have a solid space in film/tv; but as I say, driven by composers, not productions.
My concern is for 20 years from now, when the current roster of fantastic musicians, having been through the film/tv scene as it was, has moved on. Is there currently an active mentoring of the younger players who will one day be sitting in those lead chairs?
My big question is “how does this inform the conversation about LA film scoring musicians and all of the things that are contributing to the mass exodus of projects to other parts of the world?” Look at the percentage of films that were scored out of the US (and even London) last year in favor of Eastern Europe, Russia, and (increasingly) Australia. How much of that fallout has been energized by musicians holding ever-so-tightly to their one and only bread-and-butter gig of singular orchestral performance, and furthermore, what will the overall paradigm change need to be in order for musicians to survive in the next economy?
It seems that when times are good, the inherent human trait is to believe things will continue as they are or get even better. Looking back, it is hard to imagine that as soon as the first film was shot on location – outside of the enclosed stage environment – the film making community didn’t prepare for the globalization of film making. We instead chose to think that Hollywood would always remain the center of the movie world. In the ‘old’ days, even L.A. recording musicians could go on strike and have an affect on post production because “Where else ya gonna go?” There were no studios set up to record and playback on 35mm mag other than those right here.
Today, technology has made a significant dent in all aspects of film and television (media) production. There are more people than ever who want to participate. Add to those two things the current economic condition of our country and we are all in for a lesson in Spartanizing our lives.
The irony, of course, is that it takes almost half a lifetime to be able to play well enough to work in a studio orchestra. Wouldn’t it seem only fair that one could spend the second half of that lifetime reaping the benefits of all that study and practice?
It’s not just a hobby.
Hi Richard!
Miss you!
Great points and yes technology is growing at an extremely fast pace!! A viable competitive globalized contract will have to be dealt with in the very near future. I do clearly agree economics is another issue but we absolutely have to think outside the box to keep work in LA not just for a few who do quality for MPHW [ I am one of those lucky ones] but for many great musicians no working or working very little. Even the 47 Union medical has uped their hours to qualify doing live work.
I said what I said above in a verbose way [sorry/my passion or OCD Richard] but I am aware we cannot keep everything in LA but together as a team with no nepotism and elitism we will be survive. Unionized composers possibly, educating directors/producers as to how impactual we LA musicians are in putting music to film. I experienced it on “The Tourist” with that Director. We are SOME of the very best musicians in the world and faster the lightening but as other places score movies in foreign countries they too will get much better.
I am not asking for it to be like it was in the 80es/90s and even up to 2002 but let’s get off our high horses and not be dillusional and look at what is staring at us all in the face. Walk around the elephant in the middle of the room if you so choice but that is not the answer and we all know it. People who I have talked with, and that is many please don’t continue to bury your heads in the sand. I simply cannot do this all alone!! How many people will be qualifying for MPHW in 2011 or have in 2010 even? Why are we in the red zone with our pension? Where have all the studios gone? Why are there no tax incentives to work in this state and yet there are in others??
Your thoughts Richard!
Tom B.
Hey Tom
Nice to see you here. You represent the very best this town has to offer!
The problem facing our part of the industry is not really a problem but a series of events which together become a mega-problem. You raise good points and good questions. We could use an industry savior with all the answers. Sometimes, with evolution, there are no answers, just acceptance. Not necessarily total acceptance but acceptance for that portion of things which have morphed into something new.
Event #1
Music is arguably the most “artificial” aspect of film making (which, after all, is totally artificial). “What is music’s job?” was , in years past, an easy question to answer. It was, at various times, color, scope, sex, violence and magic. And today?
Event #2
When something is rare, it is obviously of higher value. When a composer had to be able to write, orchestrate, do the sync math and conduct, there were fewer. They were perceived as particularly skilled. With that perception came not only monetary worth but the respect of the film maker who would not think of attempting to do the score themselves, for example.
Event #3
Studios in which you could sync picture (35mm film) and music (recorded on 35mm mag-stripe) were also rare. It would make no sense for a country to invest in such a recording studio without having a film making industry with which to justify the investment.
Event #4
Film makers possibly didn’t need to be instructed in the use of music because, as I stated above, the use was clear – to provide whatever elements could not be included in the film from either a technical aspect or a censor related point of view. With today’s subtleties, educating the film maker in the use of score would seem prudent.
Hollywood has the absolute best film, television and media musicians in the world – today. The problem is, and has been for a number of years, that the excellence of our musicians means everything to the composer and very little to most film makers. We know when the high strings are out of tune ( with the oboe). Our demos are played without sound FX and dialogue so the performance is crucial – to us!
Our occupation (composer) has, unfortunately, been lessened in the eyes of the film maker. We are plentiful and plentiful does not equal rare. We have increased competition which means when the film maker says “Bratislava” we say “when?” It is a courageous (or experienced) composer indeed who will bring up any possibility other than that voiced by the film maker.
If I read you correctly, you are saying our studio orchestras need to become globally competitive and I couldn’t agree more. But there is a snag. When film scoring is a secondary part of an orchestra members revenue stream, he/she can afford to do sessions for less. Presumably, the concert stage is still their primary revenue source. As soon as film scoring session become prevalent and those sessions become the player’s primary revenue source, the price of those sessions will go up. We’ve see this happen in the “right-to-work” states and in Canada. So, with which scales do we compete? The emerging film-score orchestra or the established one?
These are obviously only theories but theories of a guy who has been watching for a while now. There are, in my view, no easy answers. There are multiple events taking place and we are left with a course of action probably best voiced in this well worn prayer:
“Grant me the serenity to accept things I cannot change; courage to change the things I can and wisdom to know the difference”
I hope we can work together again soon. Even if it’s for less.
Thanks Richard!!
How about working together again for the sake of making beautiful music and having a blast doing it. The money will always follow or it has for me. ; ) I love going to scoring sessions to turn inanimate notes and bringing them to life and I even love it more when I have many chances to challenge myself in doing it over cause of a bow hitting the stand or a cell going off. Give me 10 tries on the solo and my goal is to up my bar each time!! I thrive on that!! That is my main reason for leaving my home to have fun working/ if you want to even call it that.
Yes bills need to be paid and musicians need medical insurance. I am very much an optimist but yet a realist. I simply once again want younger composers and players to feel that high I have felt all throughout my life making music. The money always came even when I was 14 playing with my teacher in orchestras all over LA. I forgot I even was WORKING. It was so much fun and still is when a composer is composing also for the love and sole purpose of putting music to film.
Thanks for responding Richard. Money and the art of making music combined can be extremely toxic if one does not have his or her priorities lined up in the right way.
Much musical love to you and your close ones.
Tom B.
PS: Just want those who are sort of starting out to have a glimpse of what I have had all my life! YO!
Ah, a difficult question Deane! And the only response to one of those, is another question! (Sorry). What changes in working practices and rights for musicians do you think will make it at least equally attractive for composers/producers to book a home orchestra rather than run to the East? I’m not sure how the situation differs between the US/UK but the fundamental problem is the same – the contractual freedom and relative low cost of orchestral sessions in Eastern Europe are so embarrassingly beneficial for composers/producers that there is currently a mountain to climb!
I believe musicians need to adapt and evolve their working practices, just like everyone else in media and music has. And hold on, before you shoot me, I have a vested interest in musicians being valued and rewarded!
Not so many years ago a composer delivered a hand written score to fulfill his/her contract. Shoosh – look at the multiple skills and additional requirements you guys have now! Yet some of us musos seem to have a vision of music recording firmly rooted in the 60s – formal sessions where everyone plays in the same room at the same time for an exact number of minutes with restrictions on production techniques and rights issues. I would certainly not advocate throwing respect for musicians time, skill, artistry and creativity out the window, but we could try to adapt to the tremendous change that has taken place. I’m sure many musicians have adapted, and taken great steps to promote recording work for themselves, but to me, it doesn’t feel like enough has evolved to ensure a workable session scene in our own territories.
A bit of a sad commentary, but on the other hand–hey–how many musicians, composers, singers, engineers work just one job and no others, like a dentist or something? I sure don’t know any. Not in this town (LA) anyway. It’s a freelance life. Actually I don’t have a problem with that. I’m more concerned when there aren’t enough jobs to go around for talented folks.
We have to look outside the box Les!! Thre would be plenty of work to go around for many many more if you read above. I have only ideas at this point but cannot do it all alone I have realized and many want to continue to keep their heads in the sand!
Tom Boyd
I’ll just start off by saying I have never in my life seen a musician play for One orchestra and One orchestra only! Duh! Musicians (performing instrumentalists I mean) have always relied on teaching, or multiple gigs to bring in a paycheck! So, in my opinion, that’s where Horowitz is flawed. Orchestras are not dying. I live in Boston(Berklee College of Music student) and as far as I know, the BSO and Boston Pops are doing fine. The Detroit Symphony is not really a platform to relate the topic to as Mr. McManus said in his article.
As a musician, playing in two College orchestras, being surrounded by WORKING musicians every day and attending BSO concerts frequently, I don’t see any argument here. I just see a fear monger. Hey, fear gets peoples attention… Can’t blame him.
But in conclusion, your honor, I have no fear in my career after college. I think Mr. Horowitz is just trying to scare us musicians who are already working two or three jobs at a time.
Ps. I think Classical music is making a comeback.
Christian,
The BSO is a unique example in that it has Tanglewood in the summer to bolster their season. The only other orchestra like it in the country similar is the Los Angleles Philharmonic with the Hollywood Bowl in the summer. The famed Philadelphia Orchestra is in pretty awful financial shape right now (~3.7M deficit). I would challenge your assertion that Detroit is a poor example by pointing to The Charleston Symphony which suspended operations some time ago, Louisville which has filed for Chapter 11, and Honolulu which has liquidated. With respect, you are wrong: orchestras are dying. They aren’t dead and this is reversible, but look at the numbers, math doesn’t lie. The DSO may be one of the most public debates takes place right now, but I promise it is happening more quietly in orchestras across the country.